Is Distance Running bad for you ?

maybe

by Tracey_E - 2017-04-21 15:25:42

I would say that distance runners and elite athletes are still a very small percentage of the paced population. It would be interesting to see how the percentage compares. If they're 1% of the overall population, are they also 1% of the paced population? 

So, when's your next race?? 

Tracey

by IAN MC - 2017-04-22 05:05:46

Judging by the posts from this paced population ( the pacemaker club )  it does seem that an unexpectedly high percentage are from runners ... cause & effect ??

When is my next race ?   I will let you know if ever I manage to persuade my little Medtronic friend to up its Rate Response performance .At the moment I would end up run/walk/run/walk over the 26 miles and it may get dark before I finish.

  Unfortunately I think this may be as good as it gets . Running and chronotropic incompetence don't go well together !!

But I will get lots of pleasure at the London Marathon tomorrow supporting friends who are running it and having to give up distance running really is NOT the end of the world.

 .. now where did I leave my tennis racquet ? 

Ian

runners

by Tracey_E - 2017-04-22 09:05:37

I would make the argument that the membership here is heavily weighted with people who have run into challenges, either from complications or because they are very active. I don't think we are representative of the paced population as a whole. I can name probably 10 people around me who are paced or have icd's. None are athletes or interested in doing anything more strenuous than taking a walk, none had complications, none had a reason to come here. I think that's more typical. My first visit here was because I couldn't find a HRM that would work. 

Rate response has come a LONG way in the last 20 years, but I think it still has a way to go. 

Tracey

by IAN MC - 2017-04-22 09:34:42

You make some excellent points re this not being a typical pacemaker population and I, too, have PM friends who would see no point in ever joining this club ... they simply haven't ever encountered any problems.

I think we will see a greater understanding develop in the years ahead as to why some people are pre-disposed to cardiac electrical problems and others aren't.  Current theories that I have read include :-

-  any muscle which is over-used suffers tiny tears which heal and leave scar tissue . This happens to your heart muscle as much as it would to your quads BUT in the case of heart muscle the scar tissue may affect the direction of the electric currents.

-  there is some evidence that people who develop electrical problems have a certain gene which may lead to these conduction problems . If this is the case only a sub-set of the population are at risk from crazy over-exercising.

Perhaps we were born too early and will never know the answers but as well as in RR technology there will be massive increases in our knowledge of the causes of our problems in the years ahead.

Ian

IAN MC and Tracey......................

by Tattoo Man1 - 2017-04-22 16:21:11

...........................Mercifully I rarelely wade into this contentious area of, ..might I say,..an area that I have little to contribute..

Except....

IAN and Tracey...have, between them , a massive fund of solid, reliable, informed knowledge.

This Forum deals with FACT and FEELINGS...and does not differentiate between these values.

Re Treadmill Test....two days ago my wonderful Cardiologist Andrew Haughton has checked me in for a Treadmill Test on 16th May.

My 'Gradient' has gone from 45 to 64 since last September...my Aortic valve seems to be failing.......

I am running fit and, between us here , do not want to 'Fail' the Treadmill Test...

It is now a personal matter that I can handle any Treadmill >>>15% gradient test

Any comments ??

TM

Exercise and the heart

by Selwyn - 2017-04-23 04:25:57

Ian  is rather selective with the quotation given about the danger of exercise. Further in the Manchster University Study is the conclusion:

'Although endurance exercise training can have harmful effects on the heart, it is more than outweighed by the beneficial effects.'

Of course, elderly people are more likely to get to be elderly because they are fit and able to exercise. Ageing is associated with a need for pacing. Therefore elderly people who exericise  are more likely to need pacing! The logic of this is at least as woolly as the statement, 'Elderly athletes with a lifelong training history are MORE LIKELY TO NEED AN ARTIFICIAL PACEMAKER ' as stated  by Ian. More likely than who or what?

If I was in charge of the Great Northern Run etc. I would ban it as there is an annual mortality! Anything in excess is bad for you. What sport lets fit people die on an annual basis? [perhaps all do?]. Lying in bed is associated with death.

I have looked at exercise and the heart for a long time, having at least 10 years or more of ECG changes associated with left venticular hypertrophy (LVH) thougth to be exercise related. These changes predated my pacemaker need. 

I have finally got fed up of watching my ECG changes and have asked the cardiologists WHY I have LVH? I am waiting for a CT angiogram ( 2nd May) and then hope to be able to answer the question as to whether my LVH is down to exercise.  A detailed echocardiogram was not helpful. I swim a mile 2-3 times per week and play table tennis 2-3 times per week and dance for 2-3 times per week.

The last time I tried to do 3 lots of exercise in a day I had atrial flutter. All the cardiologists I have seen (3) have told me not to stop exercising. Prolonged exercise is associated with cardiac arrhythmias. I am resolved not to exercise to excess, rather to do a reasonable amount of exercise on a daily basis. Some studies have shown that even short duration exercise of a reasonable degree is as beneficial to the heart ( for prevention of coronary disease) as strong, prolonged exercise. Exercise enhances well being, prevents cancer, reduces chances of obesity etc. There are so many positive aspects to exercise that we should not stop exercising if you are fit enough ( even with heart failure).

The problem lies with the personalities driven to excesses. I wonder whether I can swim the English Channel to France? 

Selwyn

Anecdotally

by Shaun - 2017-04-23 08:53:21

I'm a cylist and the surgen who fitted my pacemaker (for Bradycardia) is a runner, and we were having a similar discussion during my actual pacemaker implant. His view is that a correlation does seem to be emerging between endurance sports generally and heart ryhym problems which did not exist for previous generations.

Selwyn

by IAN MC - 2017-04-23 13:36:57

I really do think that you should try the cross-channel swim to France. You know you want to !  Further data on the effects of extreme exercise on the heart would be most useful.

You are absolutely right that I was selective in choosing which parts of the Manchester study to quote . I could have probably found 10,000 studies which confirm that exercise is good for you . I will repeat in capitals EXERCISE IS GOOD FOR YOU.

Thank you for reminding me of the final conclusion of the study :-

"Although endurance exercise training can have harmful effects on the heart, it is more than outweighed by the beneficial effects "  .

I always find conclusions like that slightly laughable and can't  help wondering if the people who suffered harmful effects on the heart would be in total agreement.

You mention the Great North Run. I have done it a few times , mainly for sentimental reasons  because I was born and bred in South Shields and the run does in fact go past my old house.   As half-marathons go ,it is a good one ( I believe it is the largest half-marathon in the world ) and I was one of the lucky ones who didn't die , so I repeat EXERCISE IS GOOD FOR YOU.

... but I think that Shaun summarizes the current state of knowledge very well  regarding endurance exercise and the development of electrical cardiac problems.

Ian

PS. I forgot to menton .....

by Shaun - 2017-04-23 16:08:51

The surgen carrying out my pacemaker implant concluded by reassuring me that I was doing the right thing cycling because the benefits of exercise far outweighed the disadvantages.

Final word ?

by IAN MC - 2017-04-23 16:41:52

If any of you die while doing a marathon, don't come running to me for help,

I did warn you !

Ian

ha!

by Tracey_E - 2017-04-25 10:36:56

I've always told the coaches at the gym that if I die there, I want a permanent chalk outline on the floor with my final time. They seemed to think I was kidding. 

Good Topic

by Czechmate - 2017-04-25 16:12:03

This subject hits close to home for me.  I admit that my love affair with long endurance exercise is mostly due to some mental health struggles.  I have depression and some obsessive tendencies.  This has lead me to overreaching, which has sped up the need for artficial pacing.  Looking back, I think it was the calorie restrictions in order to drop bodyweight and the ultra distance events that pushed me over the edge.  Docs believe I would have needed a pacemaker at some point late in life (more than likely genetic), but the timeline was shortened with my exercise habits.  Even some of my kids have realtively low resting heart rates already, which points to the genetic link. 

In my opinion, the most a person should ever strive for is half marathon racing.  Anything further and the physical makeup of the would be athlete needs a lot more scrutiny and the events should be done infrequently ever couple of years.  Sure some people can go harder and longer more often.  However, that's just playing statistics and we don't know what level performance enhancing drugs might play into the schedules of these athletes.  I agree, the majority of us would be better off not overreaching and stick with shorter events. 

Haywire Heart

by DaveM1962 - 2017-04-28 19:36:39

an excellent book to read on this subject is the Haywire Heart by Zinn and Mandriva!

Runners

by betelayne - 2017-05-05 21:49:27

I am surprised at the number of pm recipients in this club who have lived active lives.Runners,swimmers etc.I'm a 72 year old golfer.I've been playing for 40 years and walking 18 holes 3 or 4 times a week.I know some people who don't consider golf a sport but their is exercise involved.Up until 2 months ago I was the most active woman over 65 that I knew.So why?Why the runners?Why the swimmers?Why me?Have any studies been done?iI can't find any.Just asking...To me it seems strange.

Cycling consultant

by CyclingDad - 2017-08-13 19:42:33

My consultant was involved in that University of Manchester study, and, like me, is a keen cyclist. We compared notes on local hills we climb (he was particularly proud to tell me of a recent PB he had set on the ominously named Dead Man's Climb). His recommendation was to keep cycling, even if there is a potential link to arrhythmias, as the overall benefits outweigh any negatives. He did suggest not overdoing it in the future (as middle-aged cyclists are apt to do), but then again maybe he just wanted to be able to continue to boast of faster times than me.