Just Diagnosed

Only if you want your organs to shut down

by AgentX86 - 2022-02-12 18:52:39

Your doctors are right.  22bpm isn't enough to supply enough blood to your organs.  Don't wait until you pass out.  It could be deadly to you and/or others. Think about driving or on stairs when you finally collapse and you will. You've been officially warned.

A pacemaker is no big deal and postponing the inevitable is just dumb.

No big Deal... Says Who?

by GW - 2022-02-12 19:24:58

A second opinion may be in order or possibly an Electrophysiology study could be more convincing. There nothing wrong with obtaining additional validating data before making such a critical and permanent move. What's dumb is making a decision with inadequate data and analysis... No big deal is great advice it’s helpful and really appreciated!

No big deal!

by AgentX86 - 2022-02-12 20:17:57

I said it.  Compared to a fall down the stairs, an auto accident (perhaps killing a child walking down the road), or failing organs (losing a kidney or two), it's not big deal.  There are thousands of things worse.  I repeat, it really isn't a bid deal.

SECOND OPINION DOESNT HURT

by athena123 - 2022-02-12 20:40:30

GM, YES, GETTING A SECOND OPINION IS A GREAT IDEA. FIND A CREDIBLE EP WHO WILL DIAGNOSE WOULD BE THE BEST. MY EP WHO I NOW SEE TOLD ME THAT I REALLY DIDNT NEED ONE AND THIS IS COMMING FROM THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL WHO I SEE ONCE A YEAR. GOOD LUCK  

Too low

by sgmfish - 2022-02-12 20:54:12

A pulse of 22 anytime is TOO LOW. You need a PM and you need it now.

People think a PM is a big deal, but it isn't really. It just provides the electrical pulses you heart would if it could. OTOH, if to solve your problem, you need to ablate cells, or kill your AV node, or in some other way modify your heart, then one needs to think about it. BTW, you say you feel fine.....how do you feel if you go up 10 flights of stairs at a modest pace?

Low & Slow

by GW - 2022-02-13 00:43:32

22 beats INTERMITTENTLY at night only, currently working daily as an Engineer, with the appropriate brain power, also running three (3) miles three (3) times a week @ 68 years of age and feeling fine most of the time. I’m calling Harvard or the equivalent before I make this move...

Low and slow

by TAC - 2022-02-13 11:27:18

Are you chosing sudden death?

Low and slow

by AgentX86 - 2022-02-13 12:03:10

Assuing you're not a troll...

It may not be all that sudden.

I was an 65yo (now 69) engineer walking over ten miles *every* day and had pauses, 3 seconds at first, then an eight second asystole when I was sleeping (and a pacemaker the following Monday).  A three second pause is ONE, isolated, occurance of 20bpm. Yours is reguar - a long string or them.

No, a pacemaker isn't a big deal. It's about the simplest procedure there is.  I had a couple of teeth extracted shortly after.  Even though that wasn't a horrible experience, I'll take pacemaker surgery any day.

Sure needing a pacemaker can be depressing and anxiety is a normal reaction but so is a cancer diagnosis.  Would you really refuse treatment?

Die if you want, and it could be worse, but pehaps you want to think about who you're leaving behind. Make sure your insurance policies (both life and long-term care) are paid up.  Seriously, Frankly, you're being a baby,

My Two Cents

by doublehorn48 - 2022-02-13 12:32:59

I don't think we have any MD's on this site. That said,  from what I've seen posted,  AgentX86 is very knowledgeable. I do tend to agree with you that getting a pm is a big deal. But I wouldn't put off getting the second opinion. I would get the second opinion tomorrow.

You do you

by Tracey_E - 2022-02-13 12:49:04

Passing out is not the benchmark to use, that's when it's too late. We've had members pass out while driving then have to recover from a car accident as well as pacer surgery.

60 is a normal heart rate. 22 at any time, for any length of time, is doing damage to your body. Did you know that at 22bpm the heart can pause long enough that it doesn't start up again?

Organs really do need oxygen to thrive. You can survive on less, sure, but that's asking for trouble down the road because it's doing damage. You don't have to change the oil in your car every 3000 miles either, but your engine won't run smoothly for long. 

Many of us deteriorate slowly enough that we have no idea how bad we feel until we have a normal heart rate again. That was the case for me. I'd built the pacer up in my head to be something way worse than it was and I procrastinated until I ended up in emerency surgery one day. That is not the easy way to do it, btw.  Dizzy is not normal and should not be a way of life. I felt like I was mainlining coffee those first weeks, I had no idea how run down I had gotten until I had something to compare it to.  If you feel bad a few days a month now, it's only going to get worse. My prediction is you don't feel quite as good those other days as you think you do. These things don't go away and they rarely stay stable, they get worse. 

If it takes another opinion to make you feel confident, go for it. Choose a board certified EP, that's who you want to do the surgery anyway.  What you have isn't particularly rare or complicated so I think traveling to a major hospital with a big name is overkill, but do what makes you comfortable. 

Troll? Take a deep breath, Don't Panic!

by GW - 2022-02-13 13:26:48

 I have Doctors following my health. They have indicated the situation requires immediate action, but it isn’t an emergency. I’m driven by the data and nothing more. Once I have it, and it has been validated, I’ll follow what’s prescribed. No reason "currently" to go into surgery tomorrow morning.

GW

by IAN MC - 2022-02-13 14:22:35

You are clearly suffering from symptomatic bradycardia which is not  a difficult diagnosis ......... I'm not sure what other data  you need.

As others have said , driving a vehicle while suffering from bradycardia is potentially very dangerous and possibly illegal.  Could you please confirm that , for the sake of other road -users' safety, you will give up driving NOW ?

You will of course be able to resume driving once you have a pacemaker which seems to me to be inevitable .

Ian

LETS ALL SUPPORT GW

by athena123 - 2022-02-13 15:48:33

Yes, second opinion asap would be best. There are a lot of excellent EPs out there on here you will find a lot of nice people who are very much well educated and could offer you an opinion but are not medically trained. Please, get that second opinion. stay well 

Leave the daignostics to the Professionals!

by GW - 2022-02-13 16:06:43

If indicated by my Physician, I'll give it up in a heartbeat. However, that has not been indicated currently. I came to this forum for advice and I have received your feedback loud and clear. I'm not an unsafe person and I will follow my doctor’s orders. I would ask you all not to try to diagnose my health issues. I know there may be similarities to your own circumstances, but there's no way you can cleary understand all the details of my situation without the data and from a layman’s perspective, please leave that to the professionals. Thanks for sharing your insights where applicable.

why did you come on this site

by new to pace.... - 2022-02-13 16:54:19

there have been many who have taken their time to give you their advice.  As many have been there where you are now;.  To say you did not want advice then why did you come on this site.

new to pace

Answer

by sgmfish - 2022-02-13 18:26:28

I'll take a considered stab at your question New-to-pace:

DENIAL

it would help

by new to pace.... - 2022-02-13 18:45:55

If you put some  back ground information about your self in the profile. not the pacemaker info, since you do not have one/ Yet?

new to pace

Just diagnosed

by TAC - 2022-02-13 23:03:01

Why don't you wait until you receive your PM to come back to the forum. If you do not receive a PM, this forum will be irrelevant to you.

I get where you are coming from

by Gotrhythm - 2022-02-14 14:47:24

I didn't want a pacemaker either. Like you, the Holter monitor test indicated that the pauses and low heart rate were happening mostly while I was asleep. My waking HR was 60 with just the rare dip to 54. I left the doctor's office--saying I'd think about it. He had said it wasn't an emergency, and in my heart (ha!) I knew he was wrong. 

Indeed, a month later after I had collapsed and wound up in the ER because my heart rate was fallling to 34 periodically even when I was awake, I still point blank refused. All the medical staff's arguments fell on deaf ears. I didn't want a pacemaker.

I get being data driven. What convinced me was watching my heart rate fall on the monitor and correlating that with what I felt when it happened (BAD). I wasn't concerned about dying. But after lying there for hours watching the monitor--you know how ERs are--I realised if I didn't die, I was effectively crippled. A life of moving to the bed, to the chair, to the bathroom and back. I was extremely healthy otherwise. I could concievably live that way a long time.

By all means seek a second opinion. Wish I'd thought of that. (I know now I wasn't thinking clearly at all. Brain cells not getting enough oxygen, I couldn't concentrate.) And if you don't have one, get one of those watches that will give you an EKG readout, so that you can collect data on yourself for yourself. They're pricey but cost less than a trip to the ER plus overnight at the hospital.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

I Get It Too

by Marybird - 2022-02-14 16:00:13

Especially if at this point, GW, your issues are still intermittent, and in between the pauses and feeling dizzy, etc, you're feeling ok and functioning at full capacity. 

I was in that same boat, for a bit over two years, with what turned out to be sick sinus syndrome creeping in over that time, feeling ok some of the time, and other times hardly able to function as my heart rate tanked. Though in my case the bradycardia took turns with the tachycardia making my life miserable. 

I didn't think I needed a pacemaker either, as I never actually passed out, and didn't think an average heart rate of 54  ( with rates going into the 40's and high 30's) on a two week monitor  was that bad. When I finally saw an EP, I dragged my feet when he said I should have that pacemaker implanted, as you say, it was the finality of that decision, knowing it will be with you forever, that made me pause. But when the EP explained the nature of SSS, reminding me it doesn't get better, but that if I wanted to wait, he could wait "till I begged him for a pacemaker", that I thought it was time to go ahead with it. Well, that and the prodding of my family and friends who'd witnessed too much of my dragging myself around for those last two years, LOL. 

So now, coming up on 3 yrs post implant, I'm a witness to the idea of not knowing how bad one can feel until one feels better, as my pacemaker has been a gamechanger in my life. Who'da thunk it, but I feel so much better, have much more energy, even saved, I believe, my mental capacity which prior to the pacemaker seemed to be disappearing down the rabbithole into dementia, or so it seemed. I never could have imagined the improvement the pacemaker has made in my life. Perhaps it's a bit easier to accept it for someone who's had a couple year long history of feeling bad from the bradycardia than it is for someone who suddenly has a pacemaker put in on an emergency basis, without warning, isn't entirely sure why they needed it, and has to come to terms with it after the fact. But the hope would be that the person's condition is improved with the pacemaker and they can resume the life they want afterwards. 

This is just a before and after perspective about the benefits of pacemaker implantation to someone (me) who was just as skeptical about it as you seem to be. Of course you need to listen to, and follow the advice of your doctors and come to terms with what's happening to you, and over time make the best informed decisions for you. And you will do that. 

So I just want to wish you the very best of luck in your journey, and the reassurance that there is still a great- even improved life, after a pacemaker implant. 

Me too

by rolson - 2022-02-17 10:49:33

7 years ago I had your bpm, I didn't want to either, felt mostly fine most of the time, very active, healthy. Then one day I collapsed at work, out of the blue. Felt "funny" then nothing. I didn't WANT a PM but I would have died without one. Now, as my heart needs additional help as it continues to need additional help as we age, it just take 5 minutes in EP office and I'm good to go. I know it scarey,  I laid on that take the most frightened in my life, but woke up to more life. I would be dead for a long time if not for my little friend on my shoulder.  Good luck, hugs