Av node ablation can you feel emotions?

AV node ablations

by AgentX86 - 2022-08-12 11:51:35

Clearly emotions don't change.  Your heart doesn't control emotions, perhaps the other way around but the arrow certainly goes the other way.  Does your heart rate increase  during a fight/flight encounter?  No, but the stroke certainly does.  One way or another, the body is going to get the necessary oxygen to do what the brain tells it to do.

The heart has no control over emotions.  That's purely brain thing. The body may, or may not, follow.  No, emotions don't change. My wife says that I still don't have any. 🤪

Lost in translation?

by crustyg - 2022-08-12 13:12:44

I wonder if your Q is meant to be, 'does the heart still respond to emotions after an AV-node ablation?'

I'm fairly sure that the answer is Yes.  The AV-node ablation doesn't destroy the nerve supply to the heart: watch a scary movie and you should still feel some heart beats are stronger than others.

And, *if* I understand this correctly, the opposite should be true after a heart transplant - the nerves have been severed.

Interesting question

by dogtired - 2022-08-12 13:16:20

Biotronik claims their Closed Loop Stimulation (CLS) can adjust HR due to mential activity.  The advertising videos show HR increasing in subjects doing a mental test so I would assume that there would be some response to emotions.  You can do a search on You Tube and see what the claims are.

Emotions

by Gemita - 2022-08-12 13:43:28

Oh be careful when discussing emotions and the heart.  Emotions do change all the time and they can have a strong affect on our heart.  In fact strong emotions like fear, bereavement, happiness can affect the heart in unexpected ways, with or without an AV Node ablation.  And AV Node ablations only presumably prevent signals from the atria passing through the AV Node, they don’t stop atrial activity, so all our emotions will still be felt.  Grief for example can even trigger a serious heart event and we can die from a broken heart.  

My husband tells me he doesn’t have a heart but he surprised me one day by showing some unusual emotions during the wedding of our niece which seemed to affect his heart in unexpected ways, so for me emotions and the heart are closely linked.  I know sorrow, upset of any kind can trigger worsening heart rhythm disturbances for me and for many others, so I have no difficulty in believing that nothing we do to our hearts like an ablation, will change the way we react to an emotional event.

Also, What About How the Heart Responds to Stress?

by Shaun - 2022-08-12 15:47:47

I have Bradycardia (SSS) and my heart responds well to exercise so I don't have "rate response" activated on my pacemaker. But I often wonder whether my heart responds to stress like it's supposed to. Since the very suden onset of Bradycardia and my immediate pacemaker implant I've noticed I don't handle stressful situations like I used to "pre-pacemaker". I've also noticed that even a small amout of exercise clears the mind and gives a sense of perspective that immediately reduces stress levels. I know exercise produces endorphins, but the reduced stress occurs so rapidly that I can't help thinking that it's more related to the increase in heart rate.

Emotions

by toniorr11 - 2022-08-12 16:10:10

I had an AV node ablation in July and last week I had an anxiety attack where my heart rate went up to over 100 whilst I was just going to sleep. But I found out that  I have 3leads on my Pacemaker and one is in the right atrium which responds to the adrenaline rush so the ventricles respond accordingly although never above max pacing. Adrenaline is produced during emotions so I think it depends on what type of pacemaker you have. 

However, I'm not an expert...this is what I was told at clinic. 

OK, yes and no

by AgentX86 - 2022-08-12 18:59:09

If there is no atrial lead (VVI mode) the only thing controlling the  heart RATE is the pacemaker. There is no longer a connection to the ventricles so the  SI node has no control at all. The atria can go nuts but the heart RATE will not change. It simply can't. The natural pacemaker is the SI node and it's completely out of the picture. Adrenaline and the sympathetic nervous system may still cause the heart to beat harder but not faster.

CLS may have a slight effect because breathing will change to try to increase oxygen intake.

Shealray

by Gemita - 2022-08-13 05:54:50

Are you considering all your options with AFib, including a possible AV Node ablation?  I see from your first post on "optimization" that you are not pacemaker dependent so this would suggest that you have not yet had an AV Node ablation. 

What pacemaker system do you have at the moment Shealray since your first post wasn't altogether clear although it looks as though you have had biventricular pacing for 6 years.  

Av node ablation can you feel emotions?

by shealray - 2022-08-13 10:15:34

Have 3 leads 1 in atrium 1 in left ventrical 1 in right ventrical.

Bivib CRT

Using sotalol got inapropiate shock.

Still afib to much having an ablation in November.

Doctor will not know if the afib is around polminary or av node.

Do not want to be pacemaker dependant.

If av node disconnected only pacemaker makes the beats.

Excelaromenter in pacemaker makes pacing faster heart beat as you walk? 

How would adrenaline make pacing heart beat faster if I have no av node?

AV Node Ablation

by AgentX86 - 2022-08-13 11:52:19

"Inappropriate shock" implies that you have an ICD, not that it matters here, much, but it's good to know. It would be good to know what caused the shock. Sotalol should make dangerous, or not so dangerous, rhythms more unlikely but not impossible. It certainly won't increase the likelihood of an inappropriate shock.

If your EP even has a suspicion that it may be around the AV node, find one of the best ablationists in the country. Unless your insurance just won't pay for it, don't settle for a thrid-rate EP. There are only a handfull of top ablation EPs. It makes a difference in difficult cases. Any EP you find should have done at least a thousand ablations. Success and utter failure (and worse) is on the line here.  It matters.

After an AV ablation, the pacemaker is in complete control of the heartbeat.  At least one hopes so.  That's the whole point.  However, there is unusally an underlying "ectopic beat" that will surface if there is no other source (pacemaker vanished). During interrogations they'll check for this.

Yes, the accelerometer makes the heart beat faster as you walk, just as it would if the problem were Sick Sinus Syndrome (the most common reason for a pacemaker) with chronotropic incompetence (doesn't adjust rate with exertion). Making the heart beat faster while walking is the whole point.  You need more oxygen, than at rest, so the heart beats faster.

No, as I said before adrenaline won't make the heart beat faster, only harder - more volume. The pacemaker isn't sensitive to any blood chemistry. This is the reason for the accelerometer, to adjust rate because the body can't.

Shealray - hope this helps

by Gemita - 2022-08-13 12:05:59

Shealray,

Thank you for the additional information.  I am assuming you have a CRT pacemaker system with a defibrillator because you mention you were inappropriately shocked while taking Sotalol, a medication which has both beta blocker and antiarrhythmic properties.  I am sorry to hear your AFib is still causing trouble and that you have decided to have an ablation in November.

When your EP carries out the ablation he will first study where the AFib is coming from.  Hopefully you will be in AFib at the time of your ablation, so he will know exactly where your AFib originates.  It is most usual for the EP to ablate around the pulmonary vein area where AFib often originates, but if there are additional areas, like close to the AV Node, he may be able to ablate there at the same time.  Hopefully your EP has the expertise to carry out the ablation safely, without damaging your heart, unless the whole point of your ablation is to take out the AV Node to prevent any high heart rates from your AFib from passing through your AV Node to push your ventricles too fast.  Depending how symptomatic you are when in AFib, your EP may have recommended an AV Node ablation in any event?

Many of us are pacemaker dependent.  Pacemakers are very safe today, far more reliable than our own hearts when they start to electrically misbehave.  I see from your first post that you are already 83% dependent on your pacemaker.

Although you have had a CRT pacemaker system for 6 years, you appear to still have unanswered questions on pacemaker settings.  I would let your doctors know about any uncomfortable symptoms you might be getting, like a sudden fast heart beat as you walk, so that if this is due to settings alone (not due to AFib), they may be able to adjust your Accelerometer or other settings.

If they take out your AV Node, any atrial activity (like AFib) will still continue in your upper chambers of your heart but will be prevented from passing through your AV Node to affect your ventricles.  Your pacemaker will take over the function of transmitting electrical signals to your ventricles and provide a strong, steady heart beat free from the irregular, fast heart beats of AF.  You should feel so much better, with fewer symptoms.

Depending on the type of ablation you receive (pulmonary vein isolation ablation or AV Node ablation), you can expect a period of mixed emotions until your heart settles from the trauma of surgery.  I wouldn't overthink any of this at this stage.  Let us wait and see what your EP finds.  Good luck