Pacemaker/Defib Explant Scheduled
- by Phenom212
- 2013-05-31 01:05:05
- Surgery & Recovery
- 2672 views
- 6 comments
Hello Everyone,
I'm new to the Pacemaker Club, so I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Mike and I am a 27 year old male who presents with 3 previous incidents of Myocarditis dating back to 2002, 2005 and recently 2011. My first episode of myocarditis was in November of 2002 after a trip to China (July through August). I caught something while overseas (perhaps a stomach flu?) and was fine upon my return to the United States in September. In November, I developed symptoms very similar to strep throat, but I waited too long and developed chest pain which prompted a trip to the emergency room.
It was discovered that I was suffering from peri-myocarditis as a result of strep throat working its way to my heart. I was treated with IVIG and prednisone, recovered after 2 weeks in intensive care, and released on beta blockers (atenolol 25 mg). I returned to normal life with no restrictions when in 2005, lightning would strike twice. It began with a pulled neck muscle, followed by a bad case of gastroenteritis the following day, and on day three the oh so familiar chest pains of myocarditis reared its ugly head. My troponin levels were elevated and it was confirmed that I was indeed suffering from a second bout of myocarditis. I was treated with IVIG and prednisone, recovered fully and was released on Atenolol and PenVk as a preventative for what they thought was strep throat related (though the test came back negative this second time?).
From 2005-2007, everything was great. I was taken off of atenolol and penVk in 2007. I joined the State Troopers down in Florida and was living my life long dream of becoming an officer. Then in 2008 I was hit by a drunk driver while in my patrol car and subsequently forced to leave the department early due to my injuries. I had a Laminectomy/Discectomy with fusion on my L5-S1 with Dynesys Stabilization (?). Then one night in June of 2011, I began to suffer from a stiff neck. I thought nothing of it, but it wouldn't go away. I took Advil and called it a night. When I woke up I still felt stiff and funny. Throughout the day the pain in my neck started creeping up towards my chest. I knew the pain right away and when my parents arrived they knew I had to go in to the ER.
I don't know what it was with the doctors in Homestead Hospital, but they kept asking me if I did drugs, etc. I understand a young person presenting with the onset of what looked like a myocardial infarction was rare and often times attributed to cocaine, etc, but such was not the case with me. They didn't believe in the efficacy of IVIG and prednisone, so they treated me as if I was having a heart attack (though the ER Doctor specifically told me "It's a 1 in a million chance that you're having a heart attack or heart failure. Just relax")
They administered Nitroglycerin, Plavix, Lovanox, Toradol and Morphine. I was then transferred to Kendall Hospital in Miami to undergo a cardiac catheterization to ascertain my condition and confirm myocarditis if necessary. A few minutes after I arrived at the new hospital, I was seen by the attending ER physician and told they would perform the procedure in the morning. Not too long after that I was on the phone with my family when I began to feel very dizzy and out of it. The nurse happened to be next to me at this time. I felt like a black curtain was pulled over my eyes and I was out. I flat lined and a code blue was called. I suffered a Ventricular Tachycardia / Ventricular Fibrillation without warning.
Once again the myocarditis (which was confirmed) was of idiopathic nature and this third time resulted in "death." I was and still am confused. A pacemaker/defibrillator was implanted after brief treatment with amiodorone (hated this medicine..), lysinopril (hated this one even more--made me cough like a crazy person) and mycardis (blood pressure medicine).
The surgery went well and the ICD unit was successfully implanted. I've lived with this since July of 2011 and I hate every minute of it. I see the box sticking out of my chest every day (I'm 138 lbs and it's VERY noticeable). Psychologically I feel broken. I do give thanks for being revived (I was dead for over 3 minutes) and for my second chance (third, fourth? I've had so many near death experiences it's not even funny....)
I've been off of all medication since January of 2012. My Ejection Fraction is and has hovered from 67-69 percent which is a far cry from 38-46 percent during my myocarditis. I am now faced with a decision....
I have been given the option to remove the ICD device with the wires and continue with my normal life. The EP, my cardiologist and all the doctors assigned to my case feel it is a viable option given that I've been suffering from blood clots attached to my pacer wire for the last 4 months. 4 months of Coumadin treatment have dissipated the clots, but now that I've had a clot or two on the pacer wire, the propensity for more is very likely. They fear a pulmonary embolism or aneurysm may occur if these blood clots go undetected. I do NOT want to be on coumadin my entire life. It makes me feel like death and I'm depressed.....I lose my appetite as well.
I had my consultation today and the risks were explained to me. 2 percent chance of death as opposed to the standard 0.5 percent for any other type of surgery. 5-10 percent chance of bleeding resulting in immediate open heart surgery. The surgeon put it at 80-85 percent chance of success without a hitch while 15 percent chance of light complications to severe (death).
The surgery would be 4 hours long and recovery would be a few weeks. He doesn't fear infection because he's taking equipment out, not putting it in (though infection risk is inherent with any surgery).
There's an obvious dilemma for me. If I don't have the ICD device and I happen to suffer from a sudden onset of Ventricular Tachycardia/Fibrillation, there are no second chances. Period. But the odds of that happening given I've had myocarditis three times and only suffered cardiac arrest once after a flurry of medications that I suspect may have initiated some of what happened to me are very slim. The odds of another blood clot or multiple thrombi is very likely given the pacer wire is in the same spot and already has some scarring from the last blood clot.
I'm excited at the prospect of getting this thing out....believe me. I want my life back. I'm existing, not living. There is a big difference. At the same time, I don't want to make a decision without weighing EVERYTHING. This is life altering.
Do I take it out or leave it in? In 5 years I'll need the battery replaced and it was explained to me that wires/leads need to be replaced soon thereafter since they do not last a lifetime. By that time more scar tissue will have formed and being closer to 40 will only increase the risks. It seems to me that I am avoiding the surgery now if I choose to keep the device, with inevitable intervention 7-10 years down the line for lead/wire replacement anyway, only with an increased risk.
I hate being without a safety net, but if that means I get 10 years of great life instead of 30 years of misery and depression, I'll take it. That said, I want to live to be 100 like everyone else...lol....
Thoughts anyone? If you've read this much, thank you! I wrote a book....I know....
-Mike-
PS: I have an underlying suspicion that the mix of drugs given to me at Homestead Hospital may have initiated the tachycardia...the morphine lowered my blood pressure and the nitroglycerin given to someone with low blood pressure may indeed introduce ventricular fibrillation, though it is not entirely corroborated based on studies that I have researched. I'm no doctor, but it just seems funny that out of three times with myocarditis, the one time I suffer cardiac arrest is when they change the treatment protocol and give me all of these drugs......thoughts?
6 Comments
Thanks Don!
by Phenom212 - 2013-06-03 02:06:17
Hi Don!
Thank you for taking the time to respond. If I'm being honest, I was a bit disappointed with the lack of comments given the fact that I poured my heart out (no pun intended lol). The issues I'm dealing with are very much psychological---*more on that in a bit*. To answer some of your questions:
-The ICD has never fired on me. It has never paced me (to my knowledge) and has always come back clear after each interrogation (every 3 months). I wish I had more than just anecdotal evidence to corroborate my suspicion that the drug cocktail they gave me induced VT/VF....but sadly I do not. I will have a consultation with my Electrophysiologist to see if he concurs with me. Otherwise I'm just SOL lol....
-The surgery would be performed at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL. I moved out of Miami 3 years ago (thank GOD!)...I now live North of Jacksonville in a nice quiet neighborhood. No stress...no mess. I shudder to think I agreed to have the ICD unit implanted at Kendall. The scar is terrible (or at least every doctor I've seen up here says so), and the Dr (Dr. E. Gonzalez) was a total douchebag. He implanted the thing and was never accessible again. He didn't answer my questions and his bedside manner left quite a bit to be desired. The wire on top of the device sticks out---I can literally feel it with my fingers and pinch it. Then again I'm only 137 lbs now---no fat to hide it!
-As far as my current surgeon goes, he did not recommend I leave it in---nor did he recommend I take it out. He simply said, "I am comfortable taking it out, but I'm also comfortable leaving it in if you remain on Coumadin and get checked every 3 months for blood clots." He's confident enough to do the surgery and I suspect if I had a documented electrical problem with an ironclad reason behind it (either atrial or ventricular), that he would recommend at least leaving it in until the battery expires (5-6 years from now).
-The blood clot they found was attached to my ICD wire, not my artery/vein/etc. itself. Since I have never in my life had a problem with blood clots, they presume the wire itself is causing the problem due to taking up too much space. (?---they weren't too clear on this). The one thing they were clear with is the fact that I would have to remain on Coumadin indefinitely, something I am not comfortable with at all. His concern is pulmonary embolism more than anything else.
-The leads themselves are ok and I received no indication there was something wrong with them besides the fact that they wouldn't last forever and eventually would have to be replaced when I am older. The surgeon says the operation becomes more risky as we age and since the scar tissue would be rock solid, it would prove to be riskier (and longer) than if I were to do so now at the age of 27. Perhaps I should ask him to clarify if the leads definitely need to be replaced because they lose functionality at that time (electrical?) or if he's assuming I'll have a problem with the leads on another basis. I will also ask percentage wise how much the risk increases from now (age 27) to possibly 40+. Good question! I will add this to the list for my final consultation with him in a few weeks.
-Thank you for your time, your response and your opinion. I value it greatly! I think psychologically I'm spent, but I also see the underlying medical necessity for something that is not 100 percent resolved and cannot be proven scientifically....there is a gray area that could potentially lead to a fatal result if I make the wrong decision. I look at this thing every day and feel broken, though I know it gives me a back up and I should be appreciative of that given the fact that others are not so lucky. But I cannot shirk the fact that I don't feel lucky...I feel depressed. I've done many great things in my life---graduated valedictorian of my high school and college class, became the youngest State Trooper in Florida, visited China on a student exchange....and countless other "bucket list" items that I thought would take me years and years to reach fruition. I've also had an equal amount of bad luck (been hit by 2 drunk drivers-once in the academy and once on duty which ended my career, had a spinal surgery, suffered 3 bouts of myocarditis and 1 cardiac arrest, etc.) I feel like my contract is already expired and I'm on borrowed time as it is. I want to spend it being happy and motivated and helping as many people as I can before it's time to go.
That said, I'll wait until I speak with my surgeon in a few weeks, put everything on the table, and pray that I make the most well informed decision I've ever made in my life!
Anyone else please feel free to chime in---I'm all ears! Thanks Don and God Bless!
-Mike
Mike
by Grateful Heart - 2013-06-03 03:06:43
Welcome to the club, I'm very glad you found us.
Please don't take the lack of response for lack of concern. As of this posting, your initial post has 127 reads. That tells me most of us don't know how to advise you...including myself. Im glad Don responded.
We would rather not guess or pretend to know the answers in your case. For me, I think that speaks to the character of this club. It's been my observation that responses appear to be truly honest and informative from our vast experiences and many times are laced with humor. Nothing humorous about your case and obviously your decision is a tough one.
I don't know if it would help much, but my only suggestion would be a 2nd opinion, unless you know and completely trust your Doctor now. Sometimes, someone looking at it with fresh eyes can help confirm or deny a situation and at best, help us in the decision making process.
You have been through so much in your life already, both the highs and the lows. I hope you have family and friends you can lean on. Just so you know, we here have strong shoulders and are all ears! There really is a good support system here
.unfortunately, we just do not have all the answers.
BTW, I have 2 sons in law enforcement, the oldest is almost your age. They love it and love helping people but its starting to turn my hair gray! lol
Grateful Heart
Nice Book Two!
by donr - 2013-06-03 06:06:19
Mike: I am likewise surprised at the lack of responses but, at least I'm here - wherever "Here" is!
You have posed a serious decision making dilemma, loaded w/ data. far more detailed then the average post/comment. I was directed to your original post by someone else who was wowed by the magnitude of what you wrote & knowing I will take on anything, suggested I read it & comment. Her real question of me was "Have you sent Mike a Pvt Msg about his problem, because no one has commented yet & his detailed posts deserves a reply?".
So, here we are.
Wife & I are as native Miamian as you can get - meaning we were not born there, but moved in as kids from elsewhere right after WW-II. We both graduated from Coral Gables HS in 1954 & 56 respectively - back when all the kids from Kendal were bussed up to Coral Gables for school. At that time, metro Miami ended at about 75th Ave at a canal & the next civilization was Ft Myers/Naples! I'm not sure that Kendal even had a hosp at that time. Her Dad was living on Key Largo in 1980 when he had an aneurysm burst & they somehow got him to Homestead alive & believe it or not, they saved him! There are some bright spots in that part of the world!
Back to your tale. Tracey, one of our moderators, lives in the JaX area & should be familiar w/ the Mayo up there. It has a fine reputation for doing what you need done.
Have you talked w/ the EP you mentioned in the second para? About the anecdotal evidence we both mentioned - you are kinda stuck w/ it - but - every day the ICD does NOT fire & if it is NOT pacing you at all, your case gets stronger for the true cause of the SCA you had. Although, sadly, you cannot prove a negative, no matter how long you collect data. I am a victim of that in a related area - I had a TIA following a heart cath in 2002. I have been on Coumadin ever since - all because they cannot prove that the TIA was caused by the cath procedure! So, here I am at age 77 still taking rat poison to prevent a real stroke. I am perfectly comfy w/ the coumadin, so I do not bear that load as you apparently do. A lot of people cannot handle the psychological issues of coumadin & a few actually have medical side effects from it.
I can likewise feel my PM & its leads - they itch like mad when it gets hot & I sweat a lot. That is, I must admit, a real annoyance. I have a psychological advantage over you - I am paced nearly 100% of the time, so I don't look at my PM as a useless piece of annoying junk. It keeps me functioning normally! I can easily see how you could feel as you do about it.
I like your current surgeon & his comfort level w/ the decision YOU alone has to make. His attitude tells me that you are in no danger if it is left & you stay on coumadin. But - he recognizes that you have a problem that must be addressed.
What is his experience level at doing Roto-Rooter jobs like you would need? How many per year does he do? Is he the "Go To" guy for this procedure at Mayo? I think the level of procedures to be considered competent & experienced is 40 per year, minimum. This is something you want to confirm.
His clot concern is realistic & coumadin is the solution - IF you can handle it. You are obviously having problems. What INR do they want you to maintain? That is a factor in accepting the drug.
Your list of questions a bout lead life is a good one & something that MUST be factored into your discussions. There is someone here w/ a set of ICD leads approaching 20 yrs old! It will be interesting to hear what your guy has to say about that.
As to clot causes - It is possible that your leads take up too much space - all depends on your vein size! If they are constricting blood flow, it means that to keep your overall flow correct, the blood has to speed up considerably as it passes a constriction point, This can cause a phenomena called "Cavitation," cavitation is the turbulent flow of blood that can cause tiny bubbles to suddenly form & then just as suddenly collapse. It can cause blood to clot & adhere to whatever is right there - or the clots can go into the lung & cause an embolism. He's giving it to you straight & unvarnished here!
I'd strongly recommend that you find a good shrink who specializes in people w/ cardiac issues. They are out there & the problems you cite are very real & very susceptible to modification - if the patient can open their mind to it. We see a lot of people w/ psych issues - they are quite common. You at least recognize where they begin & the physical ones end. If you could get some help to at least make you comfortable toughing it out for another year or so, it would give that surgeon a lot better basis fro advising you.
It appears that a major factor in your decision making is the rate at which risk increases w/ age. I don't think that it increases that rapidly between 27 & 40 - but that is something the surgeon can answer best - he does these things all the time. AT two yrs implant time, they should already be encapsulated to the point that they have to be roto rooted out - so MHO is that they will not change significantly for a few yrs yet., Means that you should NOT be forced into a decision prior to the current battery expiring.
Hope this epic discussion helps.
Don
decision
by turboz24 - 2013-06-04 11:06:39
I was thinking what I would do presented with your position....
I lothe my ICD, but unfortunately mine is medically necessary. My best option is relocation when its replaced, but...
If my doctor as well as a second opinion said I definately didn't need it, it would be out in a second, even if it wasn't causing blood clots.
hello
by jonathang8 - 2013-09-20 12:09:00
Do you have inducible v-fib? I had a vfib arrest in ER at age 37 after working out at gym too hard. I am skinny and AICD bothered me too. But my EPS guy determined I had inducible v-fib so it was not a close call.
10 years later I don't really remember its there usually. If you have inducible vfib it is the ultimate life insurance policy.
You know you're wired when...
The dogs invisible fence prevents you from leaving the backyard.
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Analysis
by donr - 2013-06-03 01:06:39
Mike: You've done a pretty thorough job laying it all out for us. I'm surprised that none of our other regulars has dropped in on you w/ some advice. Let me give you a few random thoughts.
The key part starts w/ the successful ICD implant in 2011. You did not say, but have you ever had it fire on you? If not, that lends credence to your conclusions further down that the V-Tach leading to flat-lining was due to the drug mix they gave you, NOT an underlying electrical control problem. The worst part of your conclusion is that you can NEVER prove a negative hypothesis! Sounds like you have about two yrs of freedom from V-Tach. Unfortunately, that's not enough to prove anything - it is only anecdotal evidence at this point. BUT - I've always maintained that ALL great discoveries start out as anecdotal evidence - or another way - a 300 game in bowling stars out w/ two consecutive strikes!
Sounds like the ICD is a medical success, but a psychological flop. You do not ride a great white stallion on this - a lot of ICD hosts hate their device.
You correctly identified the two choices you have remove or not remove. You have not said how the surgeons feel about the choices - sounds like they have given you a very good analysis of the risks involved - you are lucky in that respect - that's more than a lot of people get!
Where would you get the extraction done? Kendall - Unless it has changed a lot since I lived in Miami/Dade, that's not a particularly good choice. Aren't all the great heart surgery hosps in Miami? Like Jackson Memorial?
What about the blood clots? Any idea what prompts them? I have not heard of that w/o concommitent infection. That is a truly serious problem & raises your motivation from a purely psychological one to one w/ some medical (Physical) issues.
About the only idea I would take issue with or look on w/ a jaundiced eye is the lifespan of the leads. Batteries are very predictable, but you gave no basis for a lead lifespan of only a few yrs longer than the btry. Is it because of the erosion on the leads from clots? We have people here w/ ICD leads that go for many long years.
I'll tell you here that the psychological issues can be successfully addressed - if you were to really want them addressed. Your main driver in the decision appears to be the psycho issues - but you do have an underlying medical problem (Clots).
As to relative risk as a function of age - Extraction techniques improve daily; From what I've read, risk at age 40 is not quantifiably greater than at age 35. If you have some data otherwise, pls let me know to help MY knowledge base. We have members who have extractions at 40+yrs all the time & they are successful.
Unless something untoward happens, I'd almost vote for waiting a few more yrs to add a bit more anecdotal evidence to what you have to ensure that you have no electrical problems.
I recognize the power of the psychological driver in your case, however.
Have you specifically asked the cardio team the increased risk if you wait till closer to EOL on your battery? What was their answer? I suggest that because you say that medically, the ICD has been a success. If you can steel yourself to tolerate it a bit longer, you could be in a better decision making position.
GOOD BOOK!!!!!
Don