PMs and bench/push-ups

Hi!
First of all, I'm very glad to have found a place where people with PM/ICD share there experience!

I've had PM all my life, but a couple a years ago, my doctors told me to stop playing Handball because of possible collision, and now I was told to stop doing push-ups and bench pressing because of possible lead fail or twisting.

Some in the forum say to start slowly, but wether you start slowly or not couldn't it affect the leads? - I know the leads might be placed differently, but I feel like I'm taking riscs everytime i do anything close to benching, or anything that feels different around my pecs/PM/leads.
I'm just confused - because training is really important to me, and benching and getting nice pecs is a really big part of it, and i really miss benching.

Are there someone in here with experience and/or medical knowledge about this subject

5 Comments

Very good answer!

by K-Solberg - 2014-12-28 01:12:50

Thank you so much for the long and very detailed answer!

The collision/blow damage and the stretch while working out the pectorals, I was told, could give rise to a new post operative infection, which is why i quit handball for good, I've had one in each implantation side. That is also what makes me afraid of working out those muscle groups again, I'm 23 years old and have been living with these devices for 21 years.

I know the risks of all those things are pretty slim, but with two infections and a body that hopefully should be able to contain these leads and PMs for 60-70 years more, I really need som "proof" that it's okay to work out with no major risk.

I know you hope what i mean, it's not that i don't think you are right, but its my life and future that is on the line. Do you know any scientific writings about this issue?

I have had

by Creaky - 2014-12-28 03:12:40

leads break twice. I do not want to have another one break. One of my docs related seeing an xray study of the leads during exercise. He said you cant believe the amount of flexing and bending when you do reps with weights- presses, etc. The leads are thin, the coating is thin.
I am a senior, still work out, ski, hike, but don't do the reps with my left arm.
You have to decide what is best for you in the long run. Don't let yourself be made to feel guilty by proponents on either side of this discussion.

comfort level

by Tracey_E - 2014-12-28 09:12:05

There are many of us here who lift weights and have never had a problem. I'm coming up on my 4th year doing Crossfit, before that I went to a regular gym and used lighter weights. My dr is ok with it, said stop if it doesn't feel good. My rep said the leads are intended to move with us so do what I want. I had a lead go bad a few years ago but it was 15 years old and not in a place where anything I did could have caused it, so who knows what happened. Broken leads do happen, see Creaky's post, but more often we don't know why they give out.

I've had the same rep since 1994 so he's not new at this. He covers a lot of territory and has a number of young, active patients so when he tells me don't worry about it, I trust him. Do what you are comfortable with. It sounds like you aren't comfortable pushing it, so don't. There are lots of other things to do to stay fit. Given your infection history, I can see why you'd be a little more cautious. What it comes down to is there are not enough of us that there are studies or any evidence beyond talking anyone with experience with young patients. We are the first generations to be paced long term so a lot of the advice they give us is just educated guesses. Go with your gut.

I used to be really cautious, but after 20+ years of this and no problems I've become fairly blase about it. Pushed a little nothing happened, so I pushed harder. Nothing happened, you get the picture. I do what I want and don't give it a thought now. I'm in the best shape of my life now at 48.

Last thought, impact isn't going to hurt the pm, just bruises to us. They are titanium. There used to be a video on Heartbeat International's website of a boy who was shot in the chest. The bullet hit the pm, it saved his life and kept on pacing. A ball or an elbow will not damage it.

Have you seen the shirts from PaceGuard? They have a flexible cup that protects us over the pacer during contact sports.

Leading and bleeding edge

by Theknotguy - 2014-12-28 12:12:29

There is the leading edge of technology and the bleeding edge of technology. Unfortunately those of us at our current time with PM's are somewhere between the leading and bleeding edge. Sometimes it is leading, sometimes it is bleeding.

About 80% of the information I have received about PM's from medical people was just flat-out wrong. I won't go into details but it was just wrong, and that included information from the hospital I received when I was discharged with my PM. Since then, and with the help of this forum, I have been trying to separate fact from fiction. Some of that fiction belongs in cloud cuckoo land.

Danger of collision: Members on this forum have reported a person with a PM had the PM stop a bullet and continued to function. Don't have the specific report so don't know if that is fiction or truth. Point being our PM's are in a very strong case, and are buried under the skin, so a human to human collision shouldn't bother the PM. Besides, the PM is located in a recessed pocket, so I don't know if a human-to-human collision during a handball game would even result in a blow to the PM itself anyway. Don't think it is a problem. Why quit playing handball?

Twisting and tearing of leads: Question here is how much stress can the leads take after being incorporated into the body and are surrounded by scar tissue? If you aren't doing anything that actually pulls on the leads enough to pull on the scar tissue and cause tearing, is the lead really being more stressed than what it would be during normal day-to-day living? Personally I think not.

Is it possible for a blow to the PM to cause enough damage that it would malfunction? Yep, sure can. Is it possible to pull a lead and cause it to become dislodged? Yep, sure can. Question in my mind is what are the statistical chances? Personally I feel very slim. Are you under the same risk while riding in a vehicle such as a car, train, bus, or airplane? I think so. Do you want to give up riding in vehicles and go back to walking everywhere? I think that would severely limit your life style.

We have people on this forum with PM's who are sky diving, weight lifting, skiing, swimming, biking, running 5K's, running marathons. All seem to be doing very well with no side effects. After a year with my PM I'm doing 99.999% of what I was doing before I received my PM. I don't feel restricted because I have this mechanical device.

It comes down to a personal decision on your part. Do you feel the statistical chances of having, 1) a collision that will affect your PM or, 2) pulling your leads, is so small they are insignificant? Or do you feel you don't want to take the risk? Your decision.

thx

by KSolberg - 2015-01-02 03:01:10

Thank you all for the very good answers!

I have tried to look for articles regarding the "issue", but i can't seem to find any relevant information regarding this subject, most research with PM, defies, CRTs have participants with a mean age of 50+.

But i can see and understand that many doesn't have any issues with weight lifting crossfit etc., apparently, because here in Denmark we don't have that many PM users, only about 15.000 and about 200 of them are under 30, so the common exercise issue is older people wanting to be able to walk up the stairs or going for a minor run.

But i can see on this page that many do things as crossfit, skydiving and other more extreme sports, I am so glad that i found this club, I have been so frustrated not being able to discuss matters as this.

But now you mention paceguard, I have just had a look at it, it looks quite alright, but what i meant with impact was more the pulls from behind that possibly would twist/pull one of the leads, not the bruising part of it. But I will definitely look more into it and see if i can find some research, and share it here on the side afterwards.

Thank you all for your good posts! and happy new year :-)

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