Information sharing for future discussions on Covid 19 vaccines

covid 19

by new to pace.... - 2021-10-30 09:13:41

Thank you Gemita for taking your time to put together these interesting links.

new to pace

Thanks Muchly for This, Gemita

by Marybird - 2021-10-30 14:13:34

And all your ongoing efforts to make this site the wealth of information, support and cameraderie that we've come to know and love. 

Thanks for all the links to the covid/vaccine information. Those and hopefully future information ( that info that comes out, hopefully, once we can get past covid as a political, agenda-driven football) will help us put things in perspective and help us make our own, informed health care decisions. I'm looking forward to perusing the articles and information you linked in your post here. 

Thanks again, Mary

Thank you New to Pace and Mary for your kind words . . . .

by Gemita - 2021-10-31 04:18:41

and my apologies for giving you both so much homework for the weekend. I don't know when to stop, do I?

Gemita

INFORMATION SHARING : Booster Jabs

by IAN MC - 2021-10-31 09:37:48

Some people seem to be sitting on the fence ...... " Should I have a booster jab, or not ? "

It may be of interest to them that a massive study has just been completed in Israel ( and reported in several journals easily findable by a Google search !)

Follow up of over a million patients showed that a booster jab reduces the need for hospitalisation from Covid by 93 % .

 Benefits become evident within a week of getting the 3rd jab.

Ian

Thank You

by Flo - 2021-10-31 09:44:06

Thank you for putting this helpful information together.

Information Sharing - booster jabs

by Gemita - 2021-10-31 12:21:00

Ian MC

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114255

Thank you Ian for reminding us of the benefits of getting a booster.   I have attached the link you refer to above for ease of reference for those wishing to read this Study.  I note that the Study was done on 1,137,804 persons who were 60 years or older and had been fully vaccinated (had received two doses Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine at least 5 months earlier).  Interesting, here in the U.K. we had to wait for 6 months before being invited for our booster.  I wonder how this might have affected the results of the Study.  

We both had our boosters (Pfizer) a couple of weeks ago but I have to say my immune response to the Pfizer vaccine has always been pretty severe and this is really making me question whether I should try a different vaccine next time.

The worst symptom was perhaps uncontrollable shaking and chills for several hours with the first two vaccines, less so with the booster, although I have had a massive immune response to all three vaccines.  I believe having had Covid in April 2020, I have more than built up immunity and probably have had too much of a good thing which can also happen. I do seriously question whether the booster vaccine for me was really needed at this time and whether this was just overkill.  But this is only my “personal” view.

I note from your previous comments on another thread that you were a research chemist in the pharmaceutical industry for a number of years.  It seems there is still little data regarding Covid vaccines and drug interactions and I wonder if you could direct us to a website that you would go to for the latest news and research on any interaction with other vaccines and medications, please?  I did come across the Specialist Pharmacy Service and the Green Book sites but it is a bit of a maze for me so if you could provide a link that you would use, that would be helpful Ian?

Flo

Thank you.  I hope you have found something of interest in the links, if only reassurance that most of our "common" meds do not pose any serious risks when taken with the Covid vaccines, but care still needs to be taken with some meds taken orally or intravenously, so it is important that we keep an eye on any new research and discuss any new symptoms with our doctors

Shot benefits

by ROBO Pop - 2021-10-31 14:04:58

I can attest that the COVID vaccines are highly beneficial in ways noone dreamed. It helps with a lowered libido and restores your vim and vigger to youthful levels ! You think I'm kidding? I'm 71 and have lost my sex drive for probsbly 10 years. Since getting the Moderna shots, i am back to my young self...my 66year old wife is pregnant and started running again. Hope I can catch her

ROFL

by Marybird - 2021-10-31 14:44:45

Robopop, I'm laughing like he!! at the visual. Let that get out on the WWW and they'll be lining up everywhere to get that booster. And dragging their "significant others", no matter how many they have, along for the ride.

But seriously, Gemita, I'm of the opinion that it'll be a while till there is an abundance of objective, trustworthy information out there about either covid or the covid vaccines. There may be some good info out there now, but honestly one has to admit at this point that any information on the topic that comes to light  has to run the gauntlet of politically motivated, agenda-driven critics and decision makers and much of it doesn't meet approval and never sees the light of day. I personally believe covid is here to stay and will be joining the multi-myriads of other viruses that share our space, live on or in us, sometimes make us sick, or have joined their DNA with ours and make us who we are. I think this will be the case regardless of what we try to do about it. It's my hope that sooner or later, we can approach anything related to covid in a more objective, better perspective than we are permitted to do at this point. 

Ok, off the soapbox now!

ROBO

by IAN MC - 2021-10-31 15:22:21

There has been a large study published showing that Moderna  inadvertently filled some  of their Covid vaccine vials with Viagra :-

https // www. Journal of Pharmaceutical Cock-ups .com

Ian

Covid side effects

by AgentX86 - 2021-10-31 19:12:24

Robo, if you can't catch your wife how did she get pregnant?  Oh, nevermind!  Sorry...

INFORMATION SHARING : Booster Jabs

by AgentX86 - 2021-10-31 23:46:30

Number of:                       US        Not-US

  Adverse Reactions =  622,743   837,595

  Life-Threatening =          9,555     19,583

  Hospitalizations =         37,986     86,542

  Deaths =                         8,068     17,619

  Permanent Disabilities = 9,353     27,277 

  Office Visits =               118,589   130,794

  ER Visits =                     78,396     94,107

  Birth Defects =                    599          359

- There are more deaths due to the covid vaccination than all other vaccinations since 1990. Other statistcs are close.

- Unvaccinated infection rate is 6x that of the vaccinated.  This translates to 83% effective.  Still not bad but not as advertised.

- About half of the deaths occur in people aged 65+ (37% aren't reported so it is likely much higher (~63% if the statics aren't intentionally skewed).

No, Ian, it's not such a slam dunk.

Still sitting on the fence.

ROBO Pop and Marybird

by Gemita - 2021-11-01 00:09:41

Forgive me, but I have to say on this occasion ROBO Pop I did not welcome your humour.  Not only did it show a lack of respect for my post, your amusing favourable outcome with your Moderna vaccine was far from matched by my miserable experience with Pfizer. 

Mary I appreciate what you are saying and you are probably right.  This will have to run its natural course before we get any meaningful answers, especially about the true burden of side effects for “some of us”, including any adverse interaction with any of our meds.  Nonetheless I fear the virus more, so I would never refuse a vaccine in the future but I will certainly need to find one that either suits me better or to try to establish whether I really need a booster at the time it is offered.  

ar_vin and AgentX86

by Gemita - 2021-11-01 08:02:29

Ar_vin, I have reluctantly had to remove your hostile comments to AgentX86.  You were warned once before about this behaviour and still you type offensive comments which are in breach of our rules and will not be tolerated.  However, I have tried to leave your message largely intact because you make a fair point.  I should be grateful if AgentX86 could provide the data source for the information he has posted.  Thank you

VAERS

by AgentX86 - 2021-11-01 10:21:21

Good enough?

BTW, those are only the reported cases.

VAERS ..... Not Good Enough

by IAN MC - 2021-11-01 13:49:57

One massive problem  with VAERS  is that no attempt is made to establish cause-and-effect

If ANY  adverse effect or death occurs after vaccination then the vaccine MUST have been the cause. Run over by a truck ? ..if someone has reported it , then the vaccine must have caused it !

I bet the anti -vaxxers , who have their own misguided agendas, are having a field- day feeding in false data to GAERS

I look at things in simple terms. Without any doubt, Covid immunity falls steadily after the 2nd shot and in most cases, can be restored by a booster jab

I realise that there are EXTREMELY rare adverse effects from Covid vaccines but I don't worry about being killed by a meteorite either. ( sitting on a fence would scare me more ,what if you fall off ? )

Ian

Interesting

by ROBO Pop - 2021-11-01 16:55:46

Very interesting.. after one of the other hall monitors had to step in between two combatants on this very subject, you choose to write a doctoral dissertation on one of the most divisive topics of our times, COVID vaccines,therby assuring you would trigger further arguments on a topic that really doesn't belong here. Perhaps in lieu of castigating ( or is it castrating) a member publically, and I'm not referring to myself, for their comments you should admonish yourself publically for inciting them. 

Not to worry, I wasn't expecting a Christmas card from you. Hugs

You're kidding me, right?

by AgentX86 - 2021-11-01 19:27:36

If you can 't take the data from the official recording administration who, exactly, are you going to tbelieve data from?  They list the exact symptoms and statistics for each, for serious reactions and death.

But I bet you take the information from the CDC on total cases.  Sheesh!

Enough.

ROBO Pop

by Gemita - 2021-11-02 06:20:09

Thank you for your comments.  I do understand what you are saying and I apologise to members if my post was seen to deliberately cause upset or to incite further anger. This was certainly never my intention.  Quite the contrary.  I genuinely want to help members here.  

My hope was to continue the process of trying to find a way forward, to help to start addressing some of our unanswered questions about the vaccines and other Covid related issues like long Covid symptoms “and to try to find a safe area for us all to work in”.  

I have received private messages from members looking for genuine help and concerned about the vaccine and how it might interact with their medication and telling me this should be a support group not a battlefield.  Sadly we are still fighting this subject and it doesn’t have to be this way.  Covid, Long Covid symptoms, its prevention and treatment is an important subject for members with chronic, often complex health conditions and I believe we should feel safe to bring our many questions here, yes even our continuing fears on vaccines, and expect to receive respectful, peaceful support from members of this Club.  

Thank You

by PlaytheBlues - 2021-11-02 11:58:19

Thank you, Gemita, for creating this thread.  I came to this site today specifically looking for information and experiences that would inform me of possible adverse effects of booster shots involving my pacemaker.  I am not on medication, but more concerned about heart inflammation related problems.  I appreciate the links you provided and agree with your suggestion that if people are posting data or information that they are claiming comes from studies, that they post the study and the link, if possible.  That allows us to confirm the reliability of the information.  At some point, we each made a decision to have a pacemaker implanted and connected to our hearts to save our lives.  It wasn't until after my surgey that I realized there is so much more to that treatment than I knew, and thanks to this community I have learned a great deal.  I think including information about vaccinations/boosters is a great resource and helps us make informed decisions that may also save our lives.  I hope the underlying tone can be supportive and friendly, something I've found here since my surgery.  Thanks and best wishes.

Confirm information

by AgentX86 - 2021-11-02 20:34:16

I'd read some of the information in opinion pieces (and they got some backwards) so went looking for confirmation when the question was asked here.  It took less than two minutes to find the VAERS data andvreadable summaries of that data. I gave the information that was readily available because no matter what I do, someone doesn't like the source (um...).  When the information is this readily available as is this, I often don't post my source because someone will shoot the messenger when the data doesn't show what they think it should.

<https://vaersanalysis.info/method/>

Click on the "VAERS Summary..." in the right hand column to find all sorts of very interesting (to me) data.

That said, (and the data from above) the numbers are pretty small in the grand scheme but these are facts to consider when making your decision. 

"You're entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts." --Daniel Patrick Moynihan

PlaytheBlues and Agent X86

by Gemita - 2021-11-03 20:55:30

PlaytheBlues, thank you for your kind words which I appreciated. The booster vaccine should not affect your pacemaker in any way and any minor side effects that you might get should be over within a few days.  I am glad you found the links helpful or at least a starting point for further reading.  I hope you stay safe and that your pacemaker continues to work well for you.

Hi AgentX86, thank you for your helpful contribution to this thread and for the VAERS link(s).  Lots of information there to digest.  I really am grateful for your time.  Well I am going to try to live with the facts, as I understand them.

I see that “under reporting” is definitely widespread.  I almost didn’t report my own troublesome symptoms when faced with a lengthy questionnaire.  I expect too that “over reporting” is also happening, so a complex picture for whoever analyses the data.  As it is a voluntary system of reporting, I expect there are a lot of spoilt papers too and I wouldn’t want to have to go through them and make an accurate assessment of any report received.

I note from various VAERS websites (rather like our own UK Yellow Card reporting scheme run by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency), that VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem but is used for detecting unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse event reporting that might indicate a possible safety problem with a vaccine.  Much like with our Yellow Card scheme, the reports on their own cannot be used to determine whether a vaccine caused or contributed to an illness or death, nor can they be used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.  I think the link below is helpful in explaining this and the information has also been largely confirmed on the VAERS website(s) too:

https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/9de3c02d

But there is no doubt that 'facts' are slowly emerging from all the departments involved in sieving through the data.  It has been a helpful learning process for me and thank you for the role you have played in this AgentX86.

Gemita