pacemakers and magnets????

Hi, I hope someone can help me. My son had a pacemaker fitted when he was 2 and he is now nearly 9 years old. When my son started school he had to a have a pacemaker care plan for the school. We spoke to his Cardiac doctor about what we needed to put on this care plan. At that point he told us that my son should not have No contact with magnets and No contact sports. So with the school heath nurse we made a care plan, which has been no problem until now. My sons head teacher has decided that this term the children will be working with magnets. Which i am fine with my son sitting in the class watching and obviously learning but not holding the magnets himself. She has now researched a site on the internet and decided my son is fine with magnets. Is she right? should i let my son hold these magnets?? help please??? does anyone know how strong a magnet needs to be to interfer???
Many thanks to anyone that takes the time to read this.

16 Comments

no no no!

by Tracey_E - 2009-02-27 01:02:09

Ask the teacher when she got her medical degree, and definitely have a chat with the principal. No, she is not correct. He may possibly be able to hold them and feel fine but I would not take a chance. I've handled magnets in my kids toys, sometimes I'm ok and sometimes I get woozy.

The pm has a little valve and a magnet pulls the valve closed. As long as the valve is closed, the pm will keep him going but will have minimal function, that's why we don't feel so good when we get too close to them. As soon as the magnet is moved away, the valve opens and it's fully functional again with no harm done. Knowing that it won't do lasting hard is NOT a reason to let him play with magnets, in my opinion. We have a very short list of things we can't do when we live with a pm, but playing with magnets is most definitely on that list!

I don't know how powerful the magnets are she is using, but you might want to have a chat with your son to watch out for signs he doesn't feel good, and if he does to leave the room. They are probably not strong enough to hurt him if he stays more than a foot away, but he should be aware it's possible and what to do if he feels funny.

ah ha!

by pacergirl - 2009-02-27 01:02:53

Well, I think your son's teacher is way overstepping her boundaries! Does she really believe that she is smarter about pacemakers and magnets than your son's cardiologist???
I would ask her that very question. Does she wish to take on the responsibility for your son's life?
I would have a letter written from the cardiologist office explaining in layman's term just what your son can and cannot do while in her classroom or anyone else's. Then I would schedule a visit to see the principal.
I wouldn't waste anytime doing this... today would be a good day to get the ball rolling!
Pacergirl

A website for you.

by tcrabtree85 - 2009-02-27 02:02:18

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061130081343.htm

hopefully you can copy and paste this website if not I will post it below. I agree with everyone else. My first thought when it came to kids toys and magnets is oh they are small and not a big deal. You know the little balls and stick deals to make weird shapes. I stepped into the room with those and they had to take them out of the room so fast I felt aweful. So I learned my lesson. I think most have some stories about magnets. I suggest him not even being in the room and that the teacher should come up with another way to teach her class without using them. My mom is a teacher and every year she has to adjust to meet all childrens needs.

I only placed part of the story on here so hopefully you can go read the entire thing. Many thoughts,
Tammy

Magnets May Pose Serious Risks For Patients With Pacemakers And ICDs
ScienceDaily (Nov. 30, 2006) — Magnets may interfere with the operation of pacemakers and implantable cardioverter defibrillators (ICDs), according to a study published in the December 2006 edition of Heart Rhythm.
Researchers found that while common magnets for home and office use with low magnetic strength posed little risk, stronger magnets made from neodymium-iron-boron (NdFeB) may cause interference with cardiac devices and pose potential hazards to patients. NdFeB magnets are increasingly being used in homes and office products, toys, jewelry and even clothing.

"Physicians should caution patients about the risks associated with these magnets," says Thomas Wolber, a cardiologist at the University Hospital of Zurich in Switzerland and lead author of the study. "We also recommend that the packaging include information on the potential risks that may be associated with these types of magnets."

Two spherical magnets of eight and 10 millimeters in diameter and one necklace made of 45 spherical magnets were tested on 70 patients, 41 with pacemakers and 29 with ICDs. Magnetic interference was observed in all patients. The cardiac devices resumed normal function after the magnets were removed.

In an accompanying editorial, Huagui Li, M.D., a cardiologist at the Minnesota Heart Clinic in Edina, MN., writes, "This study is timely and important to attract the attention of both the public and the medical profession about the potentially serious health consequences of magnets used in decoration products... for an ICD patient, the magnet interference can be fatal."

Dr. Li concludes that manufacturers who use magnets should be required to put warning labels on their products for optimal patient safety.



To all that have replied

by dannii - 2009-02-27 03:02:12

Thank you to all of you that replied to my message. You have all made me feel better, that i am not in the wrong and i shall keep fighting this matter at the school. It was also nice to hear how it feels for an adult near magnets as my son has never really said if he was feeling strangeor not. tcrabtree85 thank you for that information i will be printing that off for teacher aswell as getting a letter from his cardiac doctor. Thanks again Dannii.

Don't worry, be happy

by BillMFl - 2009-02-27 04:02:00

Magnets have a small field. As long as he doesn't hold them close he should be fine. We are surrounded by magnets in our daily life. For example, everything with an electric motor in it has a magnet. I use an electric leaf blower almost daily. Powerful motor, strong magnet. Got fans in your house? Magnets. A child of nine is probably old enough to remember not to bring a moagnet up close to his PM. But of course, I had a mommy too long ago. And she would have felt the same way. :)

Pacemakers and Magnets

by SMITTY - 2009-02-27 10:02:42

I'd like add a few words to this discussion. First, I also think that teacher has overstepped her authority. However, as one person said magnets are not automatically bad for pacemaker wearers. We are all in the vicinity of them each day, and never notice them.

Now with that being said, I know kids will be kids and I can see one little stinker trying to slip up on your son's blind side and put a magnet close to his pacemaker just to see what will happen. If you have that concern, you really don't have to worry. If that does happen or your son just gets to close to a magnet he will experience exactly the same thing he experiences every time he gets a checkup. The person doing the checkup always puts a magnet over his pacemaker as this allows them to make any changes necessary. What happens then, or with any magnet, the pacemaker reverts to a fixed rate pacemaker. All other times the pacemaker is monitoring his heart beat and helps only as necessary. In the fixed rate mode the pacemaker sends impulses to make the heart beat regardless of what the hearts natural pacemaker may be doing. This sometimes causes some discomfort or even slight pain.

Tell your son when in the presence of the magnets and in the event he starts feeling a strange or unusual heart beat he should leave that area. He should also know that the different heart beat will not be harmful to him and as soon as he leaves the influence of the magnets his pacemaker will return to normal operation in a few second with no harm done.

I wish him the best,

Smitty

if you don't feel comfortable

by jessie - 2009-02-27 11:02:07

then definetely say no! little boys are often inquisitive and get to near to things examining them. why would anyone want him to take that responsibility at nine for not feeling well and maybe forget to move away. my grandson just might start crying. i think this woman definetely overstepped her boundaries. this is a nine year old child. whose parent is an authority under the physician. i would tho speak to her first and if she insists then you must go further. jessie

Just my opinion....

by bonneville - 2009-02-28 01:02:18

It amazes me when people think that they know more than experts in a given field. The Internet sure has alot to answer for.

You do what's right for your son and tell the head to get a medical degree before contradicting a consultant cardiologist

volunteer

by Shell - 2009-02-28 04:02:33

First, I agree on calling the maker of the pacemaker and see what they say. But, in my experiences the magnets they use in classes (especially that age) aren't that strong. It's more so the kids will learn the north/south poles, see what in the class is magnetic, maybe how may of an object can be picked up my a magnet, etc. I've been in a few classes using them, used them myself and have had no effect at all. But, everyone is different.If the do have a big one there is usually only one the teacher uses, and have your son not use it. If possible, maybe on the day the class is using them you can volunteer and that way you would be in the class if there were side effects to your son. Just remind him to to place it diecrly over it, but again a small one most likey wouldn't affect it.(agin, I do know everyone is different)
It's going to be hard to keep your son away from all magnets his whole life, many things have them.My kids have alot of toys with magnets and the only one I stay away from is a science kit that has a huge magnet. I have played with their magnet toys. Does your son have any Bakugan toys? They're popular with that age and they haves mall magnets in them. (another toy my sons have) Does your refigerator have no magnets on it? Mine has alot. But, in the end your the mother and it's all up to you. At least the teacher told you ahead of time and your son didn't come home one day saying he used magnets in class.

Experts

by ElectricFrank - 2009-02-28 07:02:37

Well, lets see how good the experts record is:

The experts said there is no way birds could cause a failure of both engines simultaneously on a jet aircraft..

The experts said that Rate Response was necessary for my pacing needs. I've been without it for almost 5 years and my monitored heart rhythm has been good.

The recommendations concerning magnets differ between the various makes and models of pacemakers. The expert cardiologist is likely to give a one size fits all order.

Are experts incompetent then? No, many are very competent, but we have no reliable way to separate the good from the poor. The license on the wall makes them an "expert".

So I will take back "crap" and instead use "mindless".

cheers,

frank

dizzy

by gniwgniw - 2009-02-28 08:02:16

I avoid magnets now after several problems...the security towers at Sears also sent me to cloud 9 as someone mentioned.
The biggest shock I had was going to bingo and using a magnetic wand to pick up the chips! Didnt think anything of it till I felt a sort of pressure and I realized what it was. Not only holding one myself but my sister sitting close to my shoulder, had 2 sitting on table beside me. I walked out of room and felt better. I went back and sat down and the feeling returned instantly.
Sometimes its the little things that we dont think about seriously enough.

Magnets around the home...

by ICDsmiles - 2009-02-28 09:02:35

I need to comment to all readers regarding BillMFl's experiences with magnets and the 9-year olds teacher. My ICD is affected my magnets and magnetos. I had to sell my Sears lawn tractor because I couldn't cut the grass without getting dizzy. My new John Deere (not Home Depot type, that has the same engine/magneto design as the Sears) is fine for me. I can't lean over a running car engine near the alternator, nor lean against a refrigerator that has a lot of those flat magnets. My Echo backpack leaf blower is fine, but I don’t linger long walking through the security arches at department stores. The bottom line is if not understood; magnets can be a serious hazard. The teacher working with the 9-year old shows a desire to go above and beyond the call of duty. That is very commendable. However, she has absolutely no authority to overstep the boundaries set by the parent and their health care providers.

I'm dizzy too

by BillMFl - 2009-02-28 10:02:50

But not from magnets. And just walking onto a Sears store can put me into a catatonic state. When it comes to kids, mommy always knows best. Never mess with mommies. That is one brave or dumb teacher!

Question?

by pacergirl - 2009-02-28 11:02:45

Is it "mindless" of the teacher to say magnets won't effect the 9 year old, or is it that I disagree with the teacher as being an authority on the subject of the child's particular pacemaker requirements?

If it is me he is referring to as being "mindless" it is only his opinion and it means nothing to me. I agree that ElectricFrank thinks I may be mindless, but I assure you all that I do not believe it. Not for a second. My joy and happiness is determined by me and only me.

Smiles and Joy to all of you... =)

Pacergirl

Just Frank again!!

by ElectricFrank - 2009-02-28 12:02:29

I guess as usual I am the odd one on this sort of stuff. If it were my son (which it isn't) I would first contact the pacemaker manufacturer and ask about the magnet situation. They understand the pacer better than the cardiologist, who just does an CYA and says no. It would be very easy to test some magnets during a checkup when the interrogation could see the results.

It may seem easier to just keep him away from magnets, but believe me, at 9yrs it won't be long before he checks it out on his own. It would be better that he understands magnets, since he will be living with a pacer the rest of his life.

And finally, I am amazed at all the "Overstepping authority" crap, and I use the word deliberately, that have been posted here. What does this teach a 9 yr old about relating to a teacher who is really trying to help. She has taken the initiative in checking out the situation and raised the issue for discussion. Certainly the parent has the right to decline having him work with magnets, but don't turn it into a big issue.

Well, off my soapbox for now,

frank

cant blame a doctor

by walkerd - 2009-03-02 07:03:44

for useing genirec saying magnets bad, welding is bad, keep cell phones at least six inches away, and all the other stuff, if they where to say oh well magnets that are small are ok, welding is alright if you keep the cords away from yourself, dont know how you would do that, there would be a lawsuit and phoof no more doctor, I too think the teacher went just a little to far, a little, she is not a doctor and only a teaching expert, and Ill use that term loosely, my opion and we all have them they are like am um um cant say it on here but we all have them, if doctor says no that means no, I would ask him again and if he says no, I would tell the teacher with the princepal no means no.
dave

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